00:00:00:00 - 00:00:17:20 Unknown I mean, you can't be a proper researcher without curiosity. And curiosity is not only for just science, it’s for living. 00:00:17:22 - 00:00:45:06 Unknown Welcome to this latest episode of the BBMRI Eric podcast. My name is Eleanor Shember, head of outreach, education and communications here at BBMRI. You just heard from Eva Ortega-Paino, who until recently was national node director for Spain. This episode profiles her career, which has taken her to a secretary general for research, Ministry of Science, Innovation and Universities in Spain. 00:00:45:08 - 00:01:30:12 Unknown Before I introduce Eva, I'll explain what BBMRI Eric and a national note is. BBMRI is a research infrastructure that focuses on biobanking and biomolecular resources. But rather than having one location we are distributed all over Europe. Biobanking is the storage and use of biological, in our case, human samples and related data for medical research. We're headquartered in Graz, Austria, where our core scientific services such as quality management, I.T. infrastructure, the ethical, Legal and Societal Issues Unit and biobanking development is based. BBMRI currently has 25 members and observers. 00:01:30:12 - 00:01:58:08 Unknown That includes the International Agency for Research on Cancer, which is part of the World Health Organisation. Biobank activity is supported in individual member states by national node directors. Think of them as national rather than regional hubs. Spain joined BBMRI-ERIC as an observer three years ago and Eva was their first Director based at the Spanish National Platform for Biobank and Biomodels - Instituto 00:01:58:08 - 00:02:23:16 Unknown de Salud Carlos III. She was far from new to biobanking, having already been involved with BBMRI Sweden. In fact, Eva’s career spans 32-years with experience across several sectors - academic research, healthcare, industry and the third sector. As she settles into her new role at the Ministry, we thought it would be a good time to explore her achievements. 00:02:23:18 - 00:02:52:17 Unknown In this interview, you will also hear the voice of Mariangela Masiello, who works with me as Media Relations Specialist for BBMRI. Let's meet Eva. Welcome, Eva. Secretary general for research, Ministry of Science, Innovation and Universities in Spain. How does it feel to have achieved such a high profile role? Oh, that's a good question. Well, first of all, it's an honour to serve. 00:02:52:22 - 00:03:15:04 Unknown To serve the country. I mean, I think after being living for so many years abroad, as you probably some people know, but some others don't. I was living in Sweden for 17 years, so just turning back there or coming back to the country and being able to to serve the country is a big privilege, but also is a huge challenge. 00:03:15:05 - 00:03:45:09 Unknown So I feel know, you know, looking, looking from the cliff to the sea, but trying to make changes. Yeah. Changes that can't, make movements in the right directions. I mean, that is not the right direction so far, but that can improve the situation of science and research here at the in the country. Can you break down a little bit what it actually involves your role? 00:03:45:11 - 00:04:15:07 Unknown Well, it's quite easy. I mean, my aim my role is to, to manage, from, from the ministries to manage the all the research, domestic research. So, on the research and researches, institutions and centres here in the country, as well as all the contributions that Spain does in research, in the research field abroad. 00:04:15:08 - 00:05:02:12 Unknown So everything that is regarding research is under our, is secretary here? Sounds massive. It is massive indeed. You you were saying before we started recording that you've been everywhere recently. All over the world. So although it's Spanish, it's all about Spain. You were in Japan last week? Yeah, I was in Japan last week. Yeah, we were dealing with, a big project that we have in the South is in the southern part of this painting right there, that that is dealing with, fusion and the development of materials for a fusion energy, which you probably know that is the, the kind of energy that we are moving towards just to avoid the the 00:05:02:12 - 00:05:27:01 Unknown emission of carbon dioxide. So it's a new source, but. Well, it's not new, but it is a new is we want to split the, the source just to change. Now the, the, the sources that we have so far that are leading to climate change. So we went there to look for, European and international partners to join the project. 00:05:27:02 - 00:05:54:05 Unknown Wow, this sounds a world away from where you started your career. I'm going to hand over to Mario, who's going to delve into where you began. Yeah. You're right. Let's take a step back and talk about your studies. Your started your career by studying chemistry and in particular biochemistry and molecular biology. Why did you choose this academic path and what inspired you to take it further? 00:05:54:07 - 00:06:23:22 Unknown It's a PhD in skin tumours. Well, that's an interesting question. Since I was a kid, young girl, I wanted to be a researcher, so it was pure vocational. It was a vocational pathway. I wanted to be a researcher, so I had it clear. Why chemistry, but probably, and Harvard. But they were two things that I really, decided more or less why I chose chemistry. 00:06:23:22 - 00:06:50:12 Unknown One, it was because when I was around, probably around, 12, 11, 12 years old, we had an accident, a car accident, and we were taken to my Barney's friends, who both of them were, professors in chemistry in the northwest of Hispanic Galicia. And, she the lady was just making a poster for a conference, and I was very nosy, and I said, well, what are you doing? 00:06:50:14 - 00:07:17:08 Unknown And she said, oh, I'm going to go to this. I was another country abroad. I'm going to present my research. And, and I thought I was fascinating. I mean, she was telling everyone, talking to everyone is gleaning her knowledge in a country, and, that I was completely. I mean, it was unexpected because at that time in Spain, so many people travel, you know, so it was like, oh, she's going abroad to tell all her discoveries in chemistry. 00:07:17:08 - 00:07:35:02 Unknown So I thought, like, wow, I want to do this. And then later on, my when I was studying at high school, I wanted to be an architect. I was sure that I wanted to do something that was technical or scientific. And then my, my teacher at high school says, like, you have to be a chemist. This is what you are. 00:07:35:04 - 00:08:02:15 Unknown You are a chemist. And then should I just say no to the after two people? Once when I was very young, and then when my teacher said, your future is to be a chemist. So I decided to choose chemistry, later, because I was fascinated about, yeah, cell biology and everything that is regarding about explaining life and how old metabolism and networks work is that kind of idea. 00:08:02:16 - 00:08:24:09 Unknown So basically says fascinating. I decided to go through biochemistry and and then it was everything. I'm very lucky, you know, in life. Extremely lucky. So everything is just in front of me, just giving me the right science all the time. So I was working at the same time that I was doing my studies at the university. I was working in the National Hospital. 00:08:24:10 - 00:08:44:23 Unknown I was a secretary. So I started when I was 18. So I was in this hospital, and I met a lot of the doctors and professionals. And then when I finished my degree at the guy, I mean, the, the head of the immunology department, he came and said, do you want to be a doctor? And then I say, well, I would love to. 00:08:45:04 - 00:09:04:20 Unknown And he said, do you want to do a the in immunology? And I was working already there. So the only thing that I had to do is just move from the administration department to the immunology department. I started my PhD and then everything is, say, history, you know, from there I moved to Sweden and then now I'm here at the ministry. 00:09:04:22 - 00:09:36:15 Unknown So it was like an imprint in me. We can say that that showed you the way, your way abroad. So speaking about this, what took you straight to Lund for your postdoc? Well, again, it's, everything is, probably pure luck and optimism. I mean, my supervisor, who was, a very good supervisor, just asked me the right question, and it was, do you want to be a scientist? 00:09:36:17 - 00:09:55:02 Unknown And I said, well, I'm here now. I'm ready. I say, but if you want to be a scientist, you have to go abroad and do a postdoc. And then he was offering me some possibilities. He was really guiding me through the process and he said, well, you can go to the States, you can go. And I wasn't very fond of the States, to be fully honest. 00:09:55:04 - 00:10:14:22 Unknown So he said, listen, I did my PhD, my postdoctoral training. He said to me in Karolinska Institute, and I think you would like going to go to Sweden. I think it's a proper place for you. You you will enjoy that at the time. Again, pure luck. So it's a mix about decisions and luck. The position he learned it was another is Spanier. 00:10:15:00 - 00:10:40:09 Unknown Even Lisa who is a an immunologist as well, working now in Tenerife. She was leaving the position just two two months before I was about to finish my PhD. So she was leaving the position free. And then they decide to let you go. So without saying a word, he was guiding and then he just took the decision to say, if you want to be a scientist, you have to leave for one year at least. 00:10:40:11 - 00:11:07:21 Unknown Then one year tend to be two. And then later on he was 17. But that's another story. That's that's a while, you know, 17 years and talking about, you know, your life in Sweden, you once said being a scientist is not only about working in a laboratory. You have to become a person capable of facing new challenges. Getting to know in your cultures, I mean new ideas. 00:11:07:21 - 00:11:32:20 Unknown And I like this sentence very much. So, what inform this, rounded view of scientific study? I mean, I think this is pure life. I mean, life is a continuous search. I mean, we do research, but we have to search and searching is life is meeting new people, new cultures. Just I think you covered this expression. 00:11:32:20 - 00:11:57:14 Unknown Eleanor, being a rounded person. No. How do you say Eleanor? I mean, is much more than knowledge is knowledge about living. I mean, you cannot you can't be appropriate researcher without curiosity. And curiosity is not only for just science is for living. You have to spur new people, new ways of thinking, new new ways of just living in general. 00:11:57:14 - 00:12:32:17 Unknown So I think the best thing I did was moving to Sweden to get to know completely live to. Because if you search, you see space in the southern part of Europe and Sweden is in the northern part of Europe. And we are very, very different in many ways, but very similarly many others. And I think it was a great balance because then you learn that you are not the best, but no, the worst, that something in between is where everyone should go or should move forward to, you know, so it was a great experience. 00:12:32:17 - 00:12:53:20 Unknown I mean, it's another way as well that give you the freedom to be. We are there and we are here. You know, when you're living there, they say, okay, she's a Spanish person living in Sweden. When I came back here, now they say, okay, you know, she's been living in Sweden for too long, so it gives you the freedom to to be whoever you you want to be. 00:12:53:22 - 00:13:27:08 Unknown And you said a couple of times, actually that you're lucky. But I think listening to your responses, I'm hearing people who were responding with support for the qualities that you have and that that shines through your track history. And I think especially for young scientists listening and thinking about PhDs, to have had that great working relationship with your supervisor, the teacher who told you what to do, who clearly was tapped into your personality. 00:13:27:10 - 00:13:55:22 Unknown Yes, as luck. But that's also about relationship building. And so what you've just talked about in terms of groundedness, it all plays into that. We haven't talked about, bio banking yet, actually. And you were already involved in bio banking in Sweden. Yeah, very heavily. And including BBMRI Sweden in the late noughties also saw a major life event, and it marked a turning point in your career by returning to Spain. 00:13:56:00 - 00:14:18:12 Unknown Can you tell us a bit about that period? The period by your bank in there again? I mean, those, pure. Yeah. Not luck chance because, I mean, I was litigating, I was a cancer researchers all my life, and then I moved to Norway and from Sweden to Norway a couple of years that also doing research in, in cancer. 00:14:18:12 - 00:14:43:05 Unknown And then when I moved back to Sweden for different questions, reasons, we discovered that my husband had a cancer and, and I was working at the time, just doing my own business together. We, together, we teach in Spanish to see these kids at the school. I was doing a mix. And then, because we were my husband and I, self-employed. 00:14:43:05 - 00:15:06:21 Unknown Both of us. I decided that that was no big way, that we had to pay the bills. So I just, I just call back to university and ask, listen, I have I need a proper employment now. And, since I could very well. Oh very good relationship also with my, my former supervisor, Allen University. He told me about my banking and that was 2013. 00:15:06:23 - 00:15:30:20 Unknown And if you say like, listen, I mean, going back to research is complicated because I drop academia. So I went to industry going back, and I was doing myself and my, my little company. So it was complicated just, you know, to, to to to cling again into, into the academy. But he said like, do you think, what do you think about this is something new called by your banking. 00:15:30:22 - 00:16:00:11 Unknown And this was a department like in university. There was no related to this at all because he was he may not technology. I mean, they were developing technologies, but at the time they decided to put this because it was he was the the head. I mean, he was a very well-known researchers. Yes. The staff at that department. He said, do you think that do you think that the topic is interesting enough that you kind of start just being, scientific, coordinator for bio banking? 00:16:00:11 - 00:16:25:23 Unknown And I thought it was amazing. So I at the time I started just working 50% for bio banking, a 50% teaching Spanish in, in, public schools in Sweden. And then little by little, this small story about bio banking, you grew you grew to the point that everything, including America started and all the big network about bio banking. 00:16:26:05 - 00:16:53:05 Unknown But they were very few groups at the time. The Netherlands, Sweden, Austria, of course. But very they were ten people, ten countries. Thinking that it was an interesting idea. And then it happened to be that that was the beginning of my whole future, the bio banking. Yeah. Thank you for that. Because it was a critical period in America's development. 00:16:53:07 - 00:17:22:15 Unknown And also that pivot back into science, but in a slightly different direction. It was also really formative for you. You returned to Spain in 2019. I think, and you led BBMRI Spanish national node. We miss you hugely. By the way, can you tell us about that period and how that also shaped your path to Secretary-General? But that's an interesting point. 00:17:22:15 - 00:17:41:20 Unknown I think it was a mix of everything. But just going back to your question about moving back to to Spain. I mean, I, I mean, I was well, usually, Spanish researchers, most of us returned to the country just because emotional reasons. I mean, when you leave abroad to utilise your family, in my case, it was no work. 00:17:41:20 - 00:18:17:02 Unknown I was extremely happy in Sweden, I was integrated, I have on my network. I was happy doing what I was doing, but it was the possibility of coming here, coming back to Spain, just to come to one of the best excellent centres there was. The National Cancer Research Centre for me was a new that it Spain was in front of the MRI community, although I must say that the guy who goes retired from the biobank at the National Cancer Research Centre was one of the esteemed people that was moving the whole European network in my area. 00:18:17:06 - 00:18:52:02 Unknown But for whatever reasons, I don't know if it was the budget or not. The interest, wherever it was, it's been worsening to the European network. Then when I came back here, I was talking to the Health Institute regarding this issue, and they asked me to help the national coordinator that she was appointed, with the biobank, field because she was, mainly, researcher, although now, of course, is is still ahead in the, the national, biobank that my mother platform. 00:18:52:04 - 00:19:20:01 Unknown Just, to help with the biobank site. So I became also the, coordinator for the national Biobank hub And then, that was the time by several, I mean, after having several discussions before and during that we got into areas of service. But for me, it was a huge honour because I was appointed to be the first, national director. 00:19:20:03 - 00:19:54:06 Unknown And after so many years, also from the Swedish side, just being nosy and trying to understand what was going on, why is being was in that then it was like that. We worked just to be part of the the big family, as I mentioned for the 10th anniversary, that was BBMRI Eric. So it's been, a privilege really just to come back and, and, I've been able to, to lead, to, to had this, national them the national node, for, for about a year. 00:19:54:08 - 00:20:21:19 Unknown How it was scary. I think it was a mix of, of fact, first, just being the national no director, but also my commitment to to the whole network of Hispanic researchers abroad. I was, you know, Secretary as well for the whole network of Hispanics, researchers that are more than 5000 in our network in 24 countries. 00:20:21:21 - 00:21:02:14 Unknown So then we just work a lot together with the ministry in doing science, diplomacy and policies, just doing the, the I made them in of the biomedical act and many other things. And this was an asterisk, where it came in, it was absolutely free for the community. So I think both just being within the whole system together with these, altruistic, work of heading as a dinner, as, secretary general for the whole, international network just on together make these, this way. 00:21:02:14 - 00:21:33:06 Unknown This pathway to is probably my, if I can say, my capacity to to be here as a, you know, secretary for research. Thank you. Eva When preparing for this interview, we had the opportunity to look at your CV, which is very, very impressive, I must say. And we noticed that you are author of several scientific publications in the fields of bio banking, cancer and Anisakiasis 00:21:33:08 - 00:21:57:11 Unknown So, which is the one you're particularly proud of? Why? Well all of them. I think every every single one has something. For example, Anisakiasis that is a parasite. A nematode is a worm that is living in fish. You know that a lot of people are very. I am now after eating from raw fish all my life, just like two years ago, I have a strong reaction to. 00:21:57:11 - 00:22:22:22 Unknown Whereas Anisakiasis and, I mean, I needed I nearly needed adrenaline to survive to do these allergy. But it's funny because I knew everything about it. So the, the, these publications were very, very important for me because they were the first steps into my PhD. The then I went directly to cancer and every single, paper had the experiences. 00:22:22:22 - 00:23:10:02 Unknown The stories are millions. But one of the papers that I published in, in Sweden took me at least 3 or 4 years of my postdoctoral training, the blood paper, and that was for me. It was an explosion of happiness, pride, everything. I mean, and it was a very important paper because, I was when I moved to Sweden, I, my, my duty was just doing RNA interference, and I managed to to meet at the time these, a small group of people doing RNA interviews together with Nobel Prize laureates, you know, and, the paper, I mean, it was the possibility of working with that. 00:23:10:02 - 00:23:36:19 Unknown It was just like, you know, the heat of many, many years of very hard work. And then, of course, everything regarding Biobank, it was it was the joy. I mean, of, being able to talk about ethics. So just to talk about the organisation were put in place, I think all the papers in such a very, a very I mean, my, my career is quite widespread in many topics, but, but all of them has a meaning. 00:23:36:19 - 00:24:04:22 Unknown I can't choose it. This is like having kids. Can you choose between your own kids? All of them are special for different reasons. Thank you. And as you were saying, you wrote about many, arguments, but you also did many different things during your career. Let's go back again to 2019 and you started, collaborating with the Spanish national radio. 00:24:05:00 - 00:24:46:03 Unknown And since we are communicators, I really wanted to ask you this question. What prompted this? And how did it help you to be, better science communicator? Well, I don't know if I'm even a good one, to be honest, but I mean, this this was it was a very interesting collaboration just with the national broadcast. Program, because what we do it, what we did, and this is the interesting bit, is just to give the possibility to all know, but everyone that wanted to be part of the program for researchers that, they were serving abroad. 00:24:46:05 - 00:25:13:03 Unknown So it was a collaboration just to, to be able to make this window for Spanish researchers, developing their careers in different countries. They could tell us their stories about what they did, why they went abroad, why I'm not coming back, and things like that. So it was a no. I mean, it was, of course, scientific communication, but it was in a lay back way, you know, talking about their lives. 00:25:13:08 - 00:25:41:22 Unknown Certainly. What I'm doing with you guys now, it was the same. They're distilling a bit about their research and also we asked them if, well, what what did they expect or what did they expect from the country to attract them back. You know what, where were the needs just from this bunny's, ministry of saying yes to attract the talent back to the country. 00:25:42:04 - 00:26:04:16 Unknown So it was, more than four years every week having this program, the national broadcast. So it was fun. We had great fun. I really envious of your profession. I think it's very interesting. And of course, what it helps you is just not to be shy when you have to talk in front of people, you get used to just being talking and talking. 00:26:04:18 - 00:26:34:12 Unknown I'm a good chat. Anyhow, it gives you the tools not to be shy and to be able to express yourself and also, not to be afraid of, being in public. I think that was a great, learning over this period. Yeah. I think being able to communicate really complicated concepts, research that you're doing is something that you can learn. 00:26:34:12 - 00:27:00:16 Unknown It's a talent. Being a communicator, but it is something that you can learn. And I think it always comes through whenever we speak to people because of the passion that they have for what they're doing. And without a doubt, you know, I can see it in the conversation we're having. And when we've spoken to to other people involved in health and life science research, that as soon as you get them on the subject, their eyes go shiny and, the passion for what they're doing. 00:27:00:16 - 00:27:20:21 Unknown And it made me smile that you talked about how do you pick your children? Because someone once said to me, you know, you birth your PhD and there is that kind of feeling that you own and nurture things. And so that passion for what you've owned and nurtured and developed comes through so communicating is, is so important. 00:27:20:23 - 00:27:41:19 Unknown Which kind of leads us on to our last question. Because if you think about I mean maybe communication is in your top tips, but if you had to choose just three pieces of advice for young scientists thinking about entering biobanking, perhaps at their at the beginning of their careers, or they're thinking of segue going into another path. 00:27:41:21 - 00:28:07:05 Unknown What would your pieces of advice be? Well, I think I mean, of course, I'm completely biased because I think Biobanks is a key point for any kind of biomedical research. Although, as you know, you can biobank nearly everything. I mean, there's a need like, but let's say that, I mean, I first having I mean, believing what you do, you have to believe in what you do. 00:28:07:08 - 00:28:36:04 Unknown You have to be sure that is exactly what you want to do. Second, put love to everything that you do. And absolutely just, be 100% sure that what you are doing is helping a lot of people that we need biobank in for many reasons. First, because we have to put in value the donation of of of the, of the subjects, the people. 00:28:36:06 - 00:29:05:05 Unknown I mean, people are donating because they want to help and they want to they will not us research just to give them answers. And I say always that behind every single sample is a low hope. I mean, for many there are suffering diseases, for many other that wants to help those that have their diseases. So you for me is just believe it will you are put love in everything that you do and be sure that everything that you do it will help the others. 00:29:05:05 - 00:29:40:05 Unknown Because it's a very important topic and a crucial point in biomedical research within the field that I've been working in, even. Thank you. It's been terrific hearing about parts of your career. I'm well aware we left out lots in some of the questions that we asked, but that you're under a lot of time pressure in your new role, but it's been a delight to look at your CV and to talk to you going from that hospital administrator to where you are now. 00:29:40:10 - 00:30:20:00 Unknown Congratulations is a long career. That means that I'm old enough to tell you everything. A huge thank you to Eva for giving up her valuable time to share her story, achievements and career experience. We look forward to seeing what Iva does next. BBMRI Eric exists to represent and support the bio banking and biomolecular resources community. So to learn more about how we work and read stories from our national notes, visit the BBMRI website which is BBM r I dash Eric e r I c.eu and browse the news section. 00:30:20:01 - 00:30:49:06 Unknown We also regularly share national node news from across the bio banking community via the BBMRI Eric Newsletter, and you can sign up to that on our website. If you enjoyed this podcast, do share it with interested friends and colleagues and leave us a review on whichever platform you listen to via. It helps us to reach new listeners and watch out for our next podcast episode via our at BBMRI Eric Socials on Twitter and LinkedIn. 00:30:49:07 - 00:31:05:18 Unknown Thank you for listening.